Philosophical: mood change in NZ reenactment

[Colin]

Quotes taken from here: http://www.gatheringdarkness.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=449&start=55

[Joel of Old]

I can only comment on my own change in opinion.

An age ago I was enamored with the NAAMA way of life. It was fun and frolic from sun up till down - and 'safe' because there were no head shots. Besides I came from a background in fencing and it suited my style.

Then big shields came into play and no-one could get past them - and the head was not a valid target..? wtf I thought - Must be a safety thing.

In the past year I have come to the realization that headblow can be safe and that in order for it not to be 'a medieval themed sport' and even remotely close to combat, then the head MUST be an allowed target, indeed the preferred target.

However, I can see the movement becoming to 'elitist' for some and there being a drop-off in numbers.
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[Scott]

I have some thoughts on this, but before I launch into them I would like to beg your permission to speak frankly - I know you'll agree so I'll just carry on here.

I think when we first started our journey we did believe what we were taught was authentic. It is a bitter pill to swallow to accept that years of training may have ultimately been pointless (er... except as entertainment, I suppose). It's also extremely difficult to change when you're comfortable with the status quo.

Not only that but you have an annoying tendency to ride roughshod over other people's feelings when you're right (or when you think you're right). I can't remember if I discussed this with you in the store, but I'm fairly sure I brought it up at one point:

If WMA wants to expand it's saturation into our hobby we all need to be better advocates for it.

It's not enough to say "I have this style which has a verified primary source and an international discussion about it's implementation." Yes, those are very important characteristics for us WMA people, but the key point is that we are in a hobby, people take different things away from it and the one thing everyone is after is fun.

It's not fun when someone challenges your style - it's not relevant if their claim is valid or not, it still gets perceived as an attack and consequently people get defensive.

So we need to all promote the hobby aspect. Yes, we're picky about the fighting, but not everyone else is... but they could be if we just demonstrated why we learn the things we do in a friendly, polite and non-confrontational manner.

If we don't do that then our ultimate place in this hobby is as the fighting variant of the "All my garb is hand-stitched and sourced from natural fibres, so I'm just soooooooooooo much better than you" authenticity elitists whom no-one likes!

(Yes, I could have been more diplomatic, but Colin knows me well enough to understand that this is me speaking my mind, not having a go at him )

[Gerard Kraay]

[Angel]

[Colin]

Interesting comments Kerry. One would think with all the "woe is me" type conversations that reenactment in New Zealand has been contracting. I wouldn't know whether this is true or not as am only going on the rumours I've heard. Certainly many of the post-2001 crowd has been more receptive to new ideas, at least from my perspective.

As for your comments Scott, most of my "riding roughshod" has been reactive to the extremely antagonistic attitude from reenactment circles. I'm not some compliant scapegoat some would wish

[Carl]

[Colin]

A fascinating read Carl, but HEMA is way bigger than me. It's quite possible to purchase one's own books and/or engage in conversation on a global level. I did not hinder the development of HEMA interest in the NZ reenactment scene. Apathy towards HEMA existed long before the antagonism started. HEMA interest could have started as has already been noted elsewhere back 1997 without me having any direct influence (though my first forays into HEMA did start that year).

I have typed out several replies to your other comments, but I've decided not to. While I find it interesting to read the other perspectives, especially of those who were not the ringleaders of the witch hunt, all I'm going to do is provoke more antagonism. Something I did not intend when I started this thread. I'm more interested in why there has been a turnabout in interest. The change in mood is more than the recent commitment that AS&S have done (though other clubs are less formal about the arrangement). I'm curious to understand why. Kerry offers some insight in how: that the voices of the zealots are (possibly) no longer loud enough to hinder it, but not why.

[Scott]

Well I can offer my personal reasons:

1) You got my interest in the discussions we had in the store (yes, it's all your fault )
2) It's very interesting having a defined goal with academically credible sources to work from.
3) The global communications over the issue is so wonderful now with the internet as a resource. It would have been impossible to do this as well twenty years ago and very difficult as little as ten years ago when you started (I guess I am preaching to the converted)

So maybe that's the real secret... it's such much *easier* now. Help is an e-mail away and advice from reliable and experienced proponents can come from Wellington, Hobart, Chicago... where-ever!

[Angel]

I think the number of people interested in more authentic forms of reenactment stems from the amount of time people have been involved.

When you first start doing medieval stuff, the Hollywood version of medieval tends to be good enough for you - you're just happy to be there.

Often, through pure immersion, you actually start to learn about real medieval stuff, and you begin to realise that the Hollywood version is often wrong. Which bits you think of as wrong depend on where your interests lie. Some people might start picking on costume, others might pick on armour, others might pick on combat style.

This process accelerates as people actively begin researching, and finding out what other bits were wrong. The internet is a wonderful resource, as we've been able to make use of the research that others ahead of us on the authenticty journey have done. The internet is far more useful today than it was 10 years ago.

Once you get a big enough group of people who have made the journey, they begin to drag others with them. People at the start of the road have less steps to take to get to where we are now, because we've installed a travellator.

If you started the journey long before everyone else, then you get to sit at the end whinging that there's no one to talk to, and no one understands. And everyone still on the road thinks you're being an asshat for saying "neener neener, I won the race, I'm better than you" - even if you're not saying that at all.

Once more people get further along the road, being at the end becomes a more acceptable place to be - because that's where all the cool kids are, and the trip there is now so much shorter.

It's a critical mass thing.

[Carl]

[Colin]

[Nathan]

As you said Kerry, things change.

When I started I just wanted to fight to put it bluntly.
I have since started on my own path towards 'accuracy' - finding longsword discussions with ARMA, studing Med Hist at Uni etc - so that now I wish to "better" myself in my [/u]own[u] eyes.

Saying that, I still enjoy "NAAMA" fighting and NAAMA in general to the point of getting really irritated with those that keep bagging it. I greatly support the differnt styles that are taking place through out the country and am glad that this year we should be able to see and experiance many of them. This is what I belive the point of NAAMA is, is it not??

Question: has anyone asked SCA guys to come this year? whoud be cool if they came.

Night

[Chevalier]

[Nathan]

I was meaning in a "display" form. I realise that they cannot offically do combat with steel around (is that right) but a demostration would be cool.

Yes I know that many involved with NAAMA also do SCA.