Fire Arrows

[Frosty]

Right
i recently read an article on fire arrows and want to try this out myself.
now obviously im not stupid enough to do it on my own ...the hard and futile way..not to mention possibly Fatal..

so i am asking anyone with experience with gunpowder ( legitimate )
and anyone else with a genuine interest in doing some tests for some help.

im going to be at taupo where i hope to have a chat with Stuart and or Craig.
i have a few ideas i would like to test but they require some knowledge that i don't have

if you have ideas that you think might have worked or have seen something in a manuscript about fire arrows feel free to let me know about it and i will write it down to be tested

so the Summons arrow has been released!

Pm me here or email me.

Frosty

[Frosty]

i will be at taupo from Tuesday.

[NigelT]

Hi Frosty,

Many people have experimented over the years, including me.

When we tested a few things we tried various recipes for a napalm type substances, straight kerosene soaked rags, gunpowder embedded in the rag, potassium nitrate-based solid fuel, and various other things. All failed.

The problem with them all is keeping them lit with so much wind rushing past the arrow.

The successes I have heard about are with some sort of wind-shield, using trick candles embedded in the wick and with the authentic recipe of pitch pine. The trick candles recipe doesn't leave a tracer trail but it guarantees that there will still be an ignition source present when the arrow hits it's target and can then reignite the kerosene or other flammables. You could probably achieve something similar with gunpower if you could find a way to slow down the burn speed considerably and keep it away from the kerosene so it doesn't get 'wet'.

If you can get hold of some pine pitch, I'd suggest giving that a go - I believe it's one of the most authentic ways of doing it and I've heard one or two people say they've tried it and had it work.

And no, this is certainly not something you should experiment with at home unless you know exactly what you're doing (no, I'm not suggesting I did)

Be very careful at Taupo doing experiments like this - make sure you've run it past Nic first. If last year was anything to go by the grass was tinder dry and not ideal for playing with fire.

Cheers,
Nigel

[Frosty]

haha im sure you didn't experiment on your own.

i wont be shooting anything flaming at taupo because of that very reason!

i will however be chatting to stuart and craig about slowing down the burn time of gunpowder and possibly using a slowmatch as an ignition source
it just so happens that i have a um..sizeable container of pine pitch that i was going to throw away before i read the article...needless to say im not doing it now!!!

[Stuart]

Gentleman,

What are you intending to set fire to and at what range ?
- I mention this because the design of the fire-arrow is related to it`s purpose.

If it`s a display, or film arrow, then a smoke producing arrow-head is what you need.

- and yes, NigelT is correct as to the flame extinguishing effects of wind-rush.

Can you obtain nitrated hemp rope and combustable firework glue ? If so, email me.

Watch your fingers with this one..

You want the arrow to burn, not to bomb !

Regards,

Stuart

[Frosty]

i will email you stuart or talk to you at taupo

[hawke]

Hi there

Mike has had experience with fire arrows and has got them to keep alight, I am sure he told you a few times how to do this. We will all be up at Taupo so you can speak to Mike then. As Stuart says it all depends on what you are planning to do. Lets all hope the weather fronts are going to blow over before Friday, fingers cross down here.

[??Questions??]

hi there frosty

as hawk said mike knows how to make working fire arrows but he only problem is the ime it takes to light them.

i have another idea that might work, but the arrow wouldnt be authentic and must be compiled at or shortly befor use, (because i havent discoverd a way to store them). but if you take a peice of cloth and spread jellyfied petrol (home made napalm) on one side then rap that around the shaft ("sticky" side in) and staple it in place, it should work.

the tests i have run with napalm indicates that it takes Alot of wind to put out (i cant put it out but swinging it) and it also emits a heavy black smoke that wouls make a good trail.

the napalm is also easy to make Pm me if u want my recipie.(i dont feel comforable uploading it to a family site)

regards

Questions

[Gaius Drustanus]

Napalm. An Arab word, I think, and might have been known at or around the times of the Crusades.

Greek Fire is a well known incendiary for its use by the Byzantines from about the Ninth Century onwards and the petroleum products used by those Romans had seeped up from sites around the Euxine Sea.

Examples of Arrow Heads designed for use with Fire Arrows are well known in Archeology from Roman Army sites in lots of places (ref "Roman Military Equipment" Bishop and Coulston).

[Gaius Drustanus]

In the movie "Gladiator", Ridley Scott had a good idea how, in the "heat" of Battle, Fire Arrows might have been lit.

[Frosty]

thanks

im trying to be as authentic as i can with the materials so unfortunately jellyfied petroleum is out of the question....for the testing.

in regards to mikes method of fire arrows i haven't found much evidence to support the use of beeswax soaked cloth. admittedly its a brillant idea and seems like common sense for the time period but i not sure. i will add it to my testing list though and i will contact a friend and find out if there is anything he knows in regards to the beeswax. he has a few more historical sources regarding arrows than i do. haha.

[Effigy]

Tar?
So far as I know Pitch was what was used, so some nice hot runny tar should ignite quite well - pretty dangerous stuff though - I have no idea how you put it out.
My 2c worth

[Gaius Drustanus]

Tar!
That's OK Anne. Anytime.

[BigMac]

I also heard of them mixing gunpowder in with the pitch in many of the seige battles

TTFN

[ferit]

frosty if you need a test dummy im all keen trouble is i cant get outta palmy