Proposition for a grade system in NAAMA combat.

[Robbo]

I reckon you should go for it.

1. Write the new rules
2. Add graded system of combat (for inter-club combat)
3. Circulate to various clubs
4. Collect rules from all clubs, collate different opinions
5. Re-write new rules system to inc. realistic suggestions
6. Re-circulate re-written rules to clubs
7. Re-collect re-written rules from clubs (read bleatings over why their suggestions weren't included)
8. Adjust re-written rules to include newest suggestions
9. Circulate adjusted re-written rules
10. Miraculously have everyone agree (I'm feeling generous)
11. Go to camp
12. Watch 50% of combatants break newly adjusted, re-written rules
13. Scratch head in frustration
14. Rinse, Repeat

Most people I've ever spoken to agree that the Naama rules for combat are far too long. Common sense would dictate they needed changing, fixing and reducing years ago.

So, yeah, go for it. Love to see what you come up with.

[Daniel Duxfield]

Ok, this is what I came up with. I've tried to eliminate the dross and balance everything so that the spirit of the fight remains without anyone feeling that they will be restricted.

These are a 'baseline' that we can start with and will allow us all to free to fight with our own styles. Because no two fighters will be the same.

Feel free to add and/or raise concerns, these rules are not carved in stone.

I'm still working on how the grading system could work, so please add your 2, 10 or 50 cents.

Thanks.

THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
These are the rules as I have re-written them, your contribution is necessary for these to be completed. These have been in part adapted from the NAAMA rules set, with the more pedantic rules being removed.

1 Fairplay, honour and respect will be the watch words for any combat.

2 The Marshal has the ultimate control over the combat. All calls to 'Halt', 'Stop', and/or 'Break', must be obeyed by both combatants.
2.1 The Marshal should also acknowledge when a blow is received.
2.2 All blows must be acknowledged by the combatant receiving them. Following a confirmed 'hit' both combatants will then 'reset' and begin another round of combat.
2.3 Head blows should only be allowed if both combatants agree. Blows must be controlled and should not be aimed at the face or throat. No stabs or slashing attacks to the face or throat.
2.4 Hits to the the following areas will not count as 'kills' but can be counted as a 'wounding blow'.
2.5 Wrists, elbows, ankles, knees and armpits. This includes any other area on the combatant that is not covered by armour.
2.6 A 'killing blow' is that which in a 'real battlefield' situation would be in actual fact a 'death blow'. These are beheading, stabs and/or slashes to the torso. Or any other 'hit' that would in all reality cause the combatant to no longer be able to fight.
2.7 You cannot lightly tap an opponent and call it a 'killing blow'. All hits must make solid contact, but must be controlled. If a wound, e.g. a bruise, is received the wounded combatant is the only one who can decide to continue the combat, or yield to their opponent.
2.8 The Marshal has the final say on whether a combatant is 'dead' after receiving a 'killing' blow, if the combatants can not agree. Their word is law and will be respected. If you have an issue with a Marshals' decision, then discuss it with them after the combat is over.

3 A combatant, for any reason may discontinue the fight. They do not have to give a reason. Their decision will be respected by their opponent and supported by the Marshal.

4 All combatants must wear adequate armour, for their own safety (this goes without saying).
4.1 Everyone in combat must wear a rigid helmet, with chinstrap, and at least leather gloves. Torso protection, I.e; chainmaille, plate armour, or it's equivalent.
4.2 It is the responsibility of the combatants to ensure that their armour is adequate and will provide propper protection.
4.3 Mouth guards, boxes and breast protection are optional and their use should be encouraged.

5 Checklist for Combatants;
Helmet, gloves and armour.
Remove (or blunt) all sharps, points and blades, that may accidentally catch on you or your opponent.
Weapons should be clean and serviable, i.e; rust free.
There should be nothing that will impede your ability to fight, i.e; loose clothing, wounds or blocked vision.

6 If you are bleeding you must leave the field immediately and seek first aid.

RULES FOR WEAPONS AND ARMOUR
7 Flails, entangling, jointed, thrown and missile weapons are not allowed in combat.

8 All swords, knives and spears must have a 10mm (or larger) rounded point on them and the blade edge must have a 1mm (or larger) blunt edge to it.
8.1 A spear or pole weapon shaft must be 25mm or thicker.
8.2 weapon rules also apply to shields and armour, do not have protruding spikes, spines or blades.
8.3 Corners must be rounded to 10mm or greater, exposed edges must be 1mm or thicker.

9 Armour must be of a thickness strong enough to absorb 'pulled' blows and stabs. Recommended thickness of 3mm or more.

10 A shield may be used as an offensive weapon, but the edge can not be used to attack the face. (See rule 2.3 on head blows.)


POINTS AND GRADING
11 A points system could be used (like in boxing) to score the combatants, with the Marshal keeping score.

12 The points system could work thus;
A glancing blow (that does not 'kill', i.e. a 'wounding blow') scores 2 points for the attacker,
Deflecting a blow scores 1 point for the defender (with 2 bonus points being awarded for a successful parry),
A killing blow scores 5 points for the attacker,
The victor is awarded 10 bonus points.

13 Competition Points
This could work in conjunction with the points system, with fighters accruing points and adding their scores from their matches throughout the tournament.
A competition can therefore begin with many fighters and would then eventually be cut down to the final two 'finalists'. Based on their scores.

14 Grading
Fighters must be able to show that they are proficient with their chosen weapon set, understand the weapons they use and be able to have control over them.

A set of basic drills may need to introduced to set a 'baseline' for skills. The points system could be used in co-operation with a record of their victories and loses being taken into account, to produce a skill level.

[conal]

Robbo,

Baseline NAAMA rules were rewritten, well, not too long ago.

There's a copy on this list.

Ravens use them every camp we run.

This post was directed more at gathering a couple more standard deviations into the mead hall.

Enabling fringe dwellers, (like the Auckland Norse...he he) to sit nearer the fire.

Peer review and all that.



Duxfield,

Have alook at the NAAMA ruleset.

PM me if you don't have a copy.

I'll have a browse through your stuff and see if I can Juxta-position the relevant passages. (Bearing in mind I'm a slacker.)

cheers,

conal.

[griff]

Bil uddie (say it fast) (family friendly) fringe dwellers

[Robbo]

Conal,

I'm aware of the rules changes. Each time they've occured. C'mon dude, just cause I play lots of games doesn't mean I don't keep up with whats going on or that I haven't been around the block a few times.

So thppppt.

If I appear disparaging of any efforts to enhance our hobby or improve combat itself for the participants. I apologise, it was never the intent. Please remember I've been doing this a while, been Head Marshall at several events and had to sit through many a meeting that frustrated the living family friendlies out of me. Watching people play with their egos and not strive to improve what we do encouraged me to give up on that aspect of things a ways back.

I seem to recall discussing this with you in person, and hearing your own frustrations more than once bro.

Duxfield,

Naama has been run for years with the lowest common denominator in mind (usually dirt poor students, etc). Rule 4.1 will exclude more than a few combatants from the field for not owning armour. Hence the same rule of fighting "to the touch".

In the past, the spirit of the rule indicated that a combatant charge their blow properly, but maintain enough control over their weapon, that they could stop and just "touch" their opponent with a proper strike, but was unlikely to leave a mark.

The less honourably inclined took this and, well, we've all see the results. (NO! I am not pointing fingers at any one individual person or club here tyvm)

How to get past those expectations and still improve the rule set? No idea mate. But I heartily approve that you're trying.

[Carl]

Ok just to throw a monkey into the wrench machine how does this work with WMA or any kind of historical fencing?

[Nathan]

[Carl]

[Stuart]

Too many rules here, and many of them make european-style re-enactment technique impossible. For instance, the absence of the controlled thigh shot and the prohibition against hooking an opponents knee with an axe. The complete exclusion of shield ramming is a major omission. Why is this important ? -because the axe take-down and offensive use of the shield accounted for 50% of the kills a a re-enactment of the Battle of Hastings. It work pretty well against full armour too.
The rest of the world seems to use it, look at U-Tube.

Why don`t we all meet up one evening a Taupo and discuss this further ? I will be happy to bring a couble of shields and do a demo.

[Bogue]

In 2003 I devised a set of field rules.
All were taken from the NAAMA rules in effect at that time.

There were 10, yes that's right only 10.

They had nothing to do with weapon thicknesses or armour or shields.
That was all for a club to ensure they met, from the multi-pointed set we currently use, prior to arriving at an event.

The ten Rules were only for the field and were about field conduct and safe fighting.

Personally I have imbibed heavily over the past years and many of the brain cells, that retained that information, have passed on.
I think they went something like this.

1: The Marshal is Ghod and must be obeyed at all times.

2) No helmet no gloves no Fight

3)The only entry to the field is via a marshal (This allows for weapon checks at any time)

4)Maintain control of your weapon/s at all times.

5)Blows should be powered as to be noticed but not cause injury.

6) Blows should only be made at valid target areas, avoiding joints.
(These should be the valid areas trained by clubs under the full set of rules as mentioned above)

7) Take your hits?

I think rule ten was:- If you can't read these rules please have them read to you.


There were others but I can't remember what they were.
Someone may have them lying around somewhere.

Still just a thought.

The more technical a set of rules are the easier it is for parts to be overlooked or ignored.
Follow the KISS principle, and by that I don't mean long hair, big boots and fruity makeup.

Oh yeah, hey Duxfield just try to physically pick up a sheet of 3mm steel.

Cheers
Bogue

[Daniel Duxfield]

Wicked, good to see lots of input going into this.

okay, just like a first draft screenplay I'll go back over it with a fine toothed razor and cut cut cut.

But what do you guys think of the points and grading system? Would this work for you?

[/list]

[Daniel Duxfield]

Okay, I've gone through with my razor blade and looked over everyone's suggestions. This is what I have now;

"THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
1 Fairplay, honour and respect will be the watch words for any combat.

2 The Marshal has the ultimate control over the combat. All calls to 'Halt', 'Stop', and/or 'Break', must be obeyed by both combatants.
2.1 All blows must be acknowledged by the combatant receiving them. Following a confirmed 'hit' both combatants will then 'reset' and begin another round of combat.
2.2 Head blows should only be allowed if both combatants agree. Blows must be controlled and should not be aimed at the face or throat. No stabs or slashing attacks to the face or throat.
2.3 All hits must make contact, but must be controlled. If a wound, e.g. a bruise, is received the wounded combatant is the only one who can decide to continue the combat, or yield to their opponent.
2.4 The Marshal has the final say on whether a combatant is 'dead' after receiving a 'killing' blow, if the combatants can not agree. Their word is law and will be respected. If you have an issue with a Marshals' decision, then discuss it with them after the combat is over.

3 A combatant, for any reason may discontinue the fight. They do not have to give a reason. Their decision will be respected by their opponent and supported by the Marshal.

4 All combatants must wear adequate armour, for their own safety (this goes without saying). This begins with a rigid helmet with chinstrap and leather gloves.
4.1 Mouth guards, boxes and breast protection are optional and their use should be encouraged.

5 If you are bleeding you must leave the field immediately and seek first aid.

WEAPONS AND ARMOUR
7 Flails, entangling, jointed, thrown and missile weapons are not allowed in combat.

8 All swords, knives and spears must have a 10mm (or larger) rounded point on them and the blade edge must have a 1mm (or larger) blunt edge to it.
8.1 A spear or pole weapon shaft must be 25mm or thicker.
8.2 Weapon rules also apply to shields and armour, do not have protruding spikes, spines or blades.
8.3 Corners must be rounded to 10mm or greater, exposed edges must be 1mm or thicker.

9 A shield may be used as an offensive weapon, i.e; ramming, etc."

Should they be simpler? Personally I found the NAAMA rule set restrictive, hence my push for a change.

But does the grading system work for you? Should it be more graduated, with particular focus on skill sets, or weapon type proficiency?

POINTS AND GRADING
11 A points system could be used (like in boxing) to score the combatants, with the Marshal keeping score.

12 The points system could work thus;
A glancing blow (that does not 'kill', i.e. a 'wounding blow') scores 2 points for the attacker,
Deflecting a blow scores 1 point for the defender (with 2 bonus points being awarded for a successful parry),
A killing blow scores 5 points for the attacker,
The victor is awarded 10 bonus points.

13 Competition Points
This could work in conjunction with the points system, with fighters accruing points and adding their scores from their matches throughout the tournament.
A competition can therefore begin with many fighters and would then eventually be cut down to the final two 'finalists'. Based on their scores.

14 Grading
Fighters must be able to show that they are proficient with their chosen weapon set, understand the weapons they use and be able to have control over them.

A set of basic drills may need to introduced to set a 'baseline' for skills. The points system could be used in co-operation with a record of their victories and loses being taken into account, to produce a skill level.


Thanks for your input. Oh, I won't be able to make Taupo this year, wish that I could. Need to get this Sth Island group up and going. Ryu_soma paging Ryu_soma . . . . .

[stephan]

oh my jebus

this is nuts
im nottrying to make enimies by saying this tho

just voiceing a opinon {their like ar*e holes you know}

but tHis is totally unnessary
combat has taken place in nz for years and as skill increases so does style

REMBER IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DO THE NAAMA RULES DICTATE STYLE THEY ONLY DICTATE A SAFTEY LEVEL

WHAT DICTATES STLYE IS INTERPRETAION
what you will find is that most styles of combat conform to the naama rules unless its full powered combat with full face contact {even then the rules can still apply}


this is nuts and wont change how people swing thei weapons in the feild
stephan

[Carl]

[Robbo]

Nah brother, you're on the money.

I'd lie to point oout only one small thing though.

Norse Rules!