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Angel
Site Admin
Location: Wellington
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 Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:42 pm |
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| hopies wrote: | but for the sircoats perhaps some way to tell club affiliation (if any) as well as the archer colors (1/2 and 1/2 sir coats?)
would be cool
S |
Thing is 1/2 and 1/2 means that the one who holds one set of arms is married to the holder of the other set of arms. Quartering them would mean you're their children
The traditional way to show affiliation is through livery - wearing the colours or badge of the people you are allied to, rather than bearing the arms themselves.
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Freebooter
Principal Sponsor
Location: Hamilton
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:44 pm |
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| Quote: | | The traditional way to show affiliation is through livery - wearing the colours or badge of the people you are allied to, rather than bearing the arms themselves. |
Which is kind of what i meant when I called it an achievement.
It is a great idea though. Makes the archers look like a company, as opposed to a rabble. Not that I have anything against rabble, mind you, being one myself.
nic |
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Angel
Site Admin
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:55 pm |
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An heraldic achievement is the whole set of doodads - crest, helmet and mantle, shield, supporters, motto etc.
I presuming (possibly wrongly) that you're thinking of charges (the pics on the shield)? Individual charges are often used as badges, though a person's badge doesn't actually have to bear any resemblance to anything on their arms - like the Tudor rose, or Scotland's flag vs its coat of arms
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Colin & Lynlee
Location: N Z & NSW
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:03 pm Archery livery |
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I am happy to do a run of surcoats either with or without embroidery.
Some ideas for emblem could be:
a shield with arrows crossed
Either Red or White Roses (from the war therof) so there are 2 teams
A Rampant Lion as it is a common theme in many coats of arms
Surcoat with a shield in uniform colours with club or personal emblem on the shield.
Also you can join NZAAC as we set it up for archery and creative arts seeing we are not combatants
Lynlee
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Where there is much desire to learn, there of necessity will be much arguing, much writing, many opinions; for opinions in good men is but knowledge in the making.
John Milton
English poet (1608 - 1674) |
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NigelT
Site Admin
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:04 pm |
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OK, so I'm not quite up on the play when it comes to stuff that happened after Christianity ruined the dark ages. I googled 'livery' to clarify my understanding... but I'm not sure it helped. Can you give an example of what sort of thing we could do as archers? And is it possible to come up with something that doesn't require a design so intricate that it's impractical... and are you saying that it could be combined with normal club colours?
Nigel |
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NigelT
Site Admin
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:06 pm Re: Archery livery |
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| Colin & Lynlee wrote: |
Also you can join NZAAC as we set it up for archery and creative arts seeing we are not combatants |
Pardon my ignorance, but what is NZAAC? |
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Freebooter
Principal Sponsor
Location: Hamilton
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:07 pm |
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| Quote: | | I presuming (possibly wrongly) that you're thinking of charges (the pics on the shield)? Individual charges are often used as badges, though a person's badge doesn't actually have to bear any resemblance to anything on their arms - like the Tudor rose, or Scotland's flag vs its coat of arms |
Nope, you're on the money. That's what i meant. Apologies for using an incorrect term to describe it. Use the club affiliations as charges on the surcoat.
If you wanted two teams, make the surcats reversible.
Nic |
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Angel
Site Admin
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:16 pm |
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They'd be like sponsors logos on rugby jerseys - you have the team colours, then badges stuck all over the show.
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Angel
Site Admin
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:18 pm |
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The simplest version of livery was that the lord got a wagonload of fabric in colours that he liked, so all the servants ended up given assorted clothing in that fabric as part of their upkeep. Tunics, coats, hoods, hosen, etc.
Given my gear, I'd probably end wearing a badge on my sleeve.
Examples would really vary according to your time period.
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NigelT
Site Admin
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:23 pm |
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So, let's see if I've got this right...
We could do it, but we would have to come up with some sort of basic archery emblem. It would then be up to each individual how they wore it - as an arm band, on a shield, on a surcoat, etc. Then if they wanted club colours as well they could wear that in a similar fashion, and could mix and match the two. Is that what you mean? Or have I got it around the wrong way?
Nigel |
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Freebooter
Principal Sponsor
Location: Hamilton
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:28 pm |
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| Angel wrote: | | They'd be like sponsors logos on rugby jerseys - you have the team colours, then badges stuck all over the show. |
I've an old doublet that looks much like that. Badges and colours from groups and events all over. Shame it's (ahem) shrunk in the waist a bit. 
Anyway, I like the idea.
n |
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Angel
Site Admin
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:59 pm Livery & badges |
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My arms are "gyronny sable & or, a cross crosslet fitched within a bordure all counterchanged"
Translated:
Take a shield, divide it into quarters, then divide it again diagonally so you have 8 parts. Starting from the left along the to edge of the shield, alternate the bits black (sable) and yellow (or). Take a cross shape, and cross each of the arms of the cross to make little crosses, except for the base one with you make pointy like a ferret's tail (fitch=ferret). Stick that in the middle of the shield. Draw a big thick border around the edge of the shield - that's the bordure. Now, take all the bits which are sitting on a black background, and make them yellow, and take all the bits on the yellow background and make them black - that's counterchanging.
Now I'm not going to let my servants run around wearing my arms and pretending to be me, so I'm going to give them a bunch of black fabric and yellow fabirc and they can make stuff out of it - I'll know they're mine because they're wearing my colours.
But now the group next door has arms the are black with a gold hunting horn, and they've bought all their guys yellow & black fabric too! We're going to get confused.
I'll make all my lot wear my badge too - that's the crossed cross thingy. Some of them have it emboridered on somewhere, some are just wearing an actual badge - effectively "property of..." Their lot all have horns on their stuff - horny buggers...
And now we're off to war. I'm fighting for my kingdom, so I've got the kingdom emblem on the sleeve of my surcoat - sure it clashes, but what doesn't with a yellow & black eyesore! All my lot have it on their sleeve too.
And now we've been hired by this other guy, so we've all got his badge on the other sleeve.
Now we've done with the war and are fighting each other. We've both got kingdom emblems, but we aren't on the same side. i don't recognise everyone on my side. If we get our lot to all wear feathers on their hats, then we'll be able to tell us from them.
It really doesn't matter what you use as an identifier, anything works!
It can be something as simple as all archers carrying red hankies, or having sprigs of heather tucked into their bonnet, or a blue feather...
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Phil Berghan-Whyman
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:21 pm |
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| NigelT wrote: | Nice pics.
It might just be me wanting to take over the world, but given that a lot of archers are non-combatants generally, they don't tend to wear club surcoats.
I wonder if it would be worth either those people getting club colours for Taupo OR we start a sort of national archers guild for the sole purpose of wearing matching surcoats on the battlefield... could look really good. Just a thought. |
I think the archers having club surcoats or surcoats in their own (i.e. personal) colours would be a good idea. As you eventually intend to have archers on both sides, having all the archers in the same surcoats would be confusing for the combatants (and also for any audience).
Some of the archers may not have surcoats at the moment, but they aren't a huge effort to make (especially if you machine sew them) and don't take an enormous amount of material either.
I do, however, like the idea of an archers emblym of some kind - just because it would be cool.
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Phil Berghan-Whyman
"Hand me the sword and ask me the question again"
http://www.handypaladin.co.nz |
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hopies
Location: Taumarunui
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:30 pm |
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how about just a simple arrow?
- we could be sneaky and put club colors as the fletchings.
my mind is devious...
soph
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Ignore the stains behind the man behind the curtain. |
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NigelT
Site Admin
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:36 pm |
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Looking into the future I can see people walking around with wearing the medieval equivalent of a scout blanket with badges all over it... one for archery, one for single sword, one for spear, one for siege, etc. It could be quite interesting. I like it.
But we would need a standard emblem.
Clubs could use them as achievement awards as you suggest, and people could wear them as an announcement of their battlefield specialities. Those on the battlefield with many badges have probably been around longer (aside from those few who will collect the whole set regardless of whether they have ever used each weapon or not).
Has anyone got any ideas for an archery emblem?
Do we start an emblem competition? |
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