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allfiredup
Location: Taumarunui
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 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:32 pm |
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Terme - PM me or email for exact quote - around $75 for suspension harness but I wont touch a spun bowl, just in case you have one.
Dont mean to hijack converastion with business - will take it off thread.
| Quote: | | I think the first question we need to ask is, Do we want a national "championship" which is really what we are talking about here? |
What about a league - a bunch of tournaments over a year culmulationg into a national ranking? A bit like the fencers do.
This way no matter what the event is - we can have a tournament under agreed rules. I reccomend that we get a comittee, any fighter who wants to be and has been fighting for 5 years or longer can add imput, to stop one hit wonders.
thanks
Justin
_________________
Ignorance is bliss, knowledge is power.
www.afultd.com |
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Callum
Sponsor
Location: Upper Hutt
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:12 am |
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| allfiredup wrote: | What about a league - a bunch of tournaments over a year culmulationg into a national ranking? A bit like the fencers do.
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This is what the International Jousting Leaque do for jousting and other equestrian aspects of the hobby. The International Combat Leaque was formed to do much the same thing for all the foot combat aspects of the hobby including archery.
I have affiliated all of the jousting tournaments that I have run since 2009 to get our local riders into the international rankings and I will also be doing the same for all the foot combat and archery events that I run in future as well.
_________________
Callum Forbes
Order of the Boar - www.jousting.co.nz
Order of the Boar Historical Foot Combat -
www.hapkido.org.nz/upperhutt.html |
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allfiredup
Location: Taumarunui
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:04 pm |
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I notice this thread has died a little. have we gotten anywhere?
Callum- thats great that your events are internation standards, but what about other events? Would we be able to do the same?
If so - I think thats alot of work. I would like to see at least three tournaments a year spread over the country. I believe there is enough interest / equiptment and skill for this to happen.
thanks
Justin
_________________
Ignorance is bliss, knowledge is power.
www.afultd.com |
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Callum
Sponsor
Location: Upper Hutt
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:59 pm |
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| allfiredup wrote: | | Callum- thats great that your events are internation standards, but what about other events? Would we be able to do the same? |
In the absence of any major public events this summer, we are looking at running a series of foot and equestrian workshops instead. Be good to focus on skills development and have the summer off all the drama of organising a big event 
The workshops we are looking at are obviously joust training but we are also looking at mounted archery competition training (again in a European format), WW1 cavalry and medieval foot combat tournament workshops.
I am looking at offering 4 medieval foot combat options from the late 14th/early 15th centuries - dagger on dagger, sword and buckler, long sword and poll axe. Ideally, if time allows the format would be a full double round robin in that everybody gets to challenge everybody else (so everybody gets to do 2 fights with every other person one as challenger and one as defender).
As a challenger you get to choose which one of the 4 choices to use (there may have to be a 'fudge' factor as some people may not have the armour required for poll axe for example so this will limit the choice a challenger may have).
All fights will be won or lost on a number of factors including - first telling blow, disarmed/cast to ground or thrown out of the lists for example. After the round robin the top 4 go into semi finals and finals.
These are my thoughts as they stand at the moment anyway and I will be looking at running training workshops to get people used to the format and to each other's styles.
In terms of getting your event "internationally recognised", if you join the International Combat League for example you don't have to adopt anybody else's rules or way of doing things. You just have to prove that your event is professionally well thought out, covering all the likely eventualities, etc. If you join other bodies you may have to give away a lot more so you have to decide what value getting external affiliation will give your event and if this is worth it.
_________________
Callum Forbes
Order of the Boar - www.jousting.co.nz
Order of the Boar Historical Foot Combat -
www.hapkido.org.nz/upperhutt.html |
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JohnF
Location: Palmy
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:49 pm |
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| Quote: | | dagger on dagger, sword and buckler |
Callum, what do you have in mind for armour requirements for these categories? |
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Callum
Sponsor
Location: Upper Hutt
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:48 pm |
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| JohnF wrote: | | Callum, what do you have in mind for armour requirements for these categories? |
Note that I'm coming at this from my perspective of portraying a late 14th/early 15th century tourney. If you are approaching this from a different period then different items of armour would apply.
Having everybody in full armour from this period would be awesome from both a safety and spectator point of view but in NZ we have to be a bit more pragmatic so I'm thinking a minimum of a full sleeved gambeson, full face steel head protection, at least mail backed leather gauntlets and some form of rigid or semi rigid torso protection, e.g. a mail shirt or coat-of-plates. This should be adequate enough for dagger, sword and buckler and long sword and still provide a good period look.
_________________
Callum Forbes
Order of the Boar - www.jousting.co.nz
Order of the Boar Historical Foot Combat -
www.hapkido.org.nz/upperhutt.html |
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JohnF
Location: Palmy
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:51 pm |
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What do you think of using non metal wasters for a llghtly armoured
category? Such as those designed by Dave Rawlings of the Boars Tooth
Fight School
http://www.theknightshop.co.uk/catalog/hema-nylon-waster-sparring-swords-c-563_573.html.
They have some flex on thrusting, and are 2/3 weight of a sword or long
sword. I'm putting this idea forward as I'm of the opinion that some sword
and buckler methods, such as the I33, appear to be more effective against
enemies with little armour. A softer weapon balances a lower armour
requirement, and might promote a more authentic martial experience.
I'm aware of the juggling act between safety, fun, authenticity, and
watchability. Tournament fighting is not martial, and many techniques are
dropped in favour of others for safety or because the rules suit them. For
example, covering my head, closing the distance and pushing my
opponent out of the lists may be a viable winning tactic. Crap for war, but
great for my trophy wall  .
There have to be rules, they make the game fair and fun. The most
important thing is that they are understood, and adhered to. I like the
pre tourney workshop approach. It's a great method to calibrate fighters
with each other and the scoring system. Soft weapons, or good armour,
safety starts with our minds. |
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Silver
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:27 pm |
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| JohnF wrote: | I'm aware of the juggling act between safety, fun, authenticity, and watchability. Tournament fighting is not martial, and many techniques are dropped in favour of others for safety or because the rules suit them. For example, covering my head, closing the distance and pushing my opponent out of the lists may be a viable winning tactic. Crap for war, but
great for my trophy wall . |
And then get thrown over my shoulder as tournaments are martial.
And grappling/wrestling is taught in manuscripts as it helps with correcting balance and over extending.
Most techniques are not dropped for safety, they will be practiced or modified till a suitable safe level is reached if this is not able to happen (picking someone up in a firemans lift and then dropping them on their head) then it is dropped.
_________________
I mistook it for a brothel.
honest mistake. |
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JohnF
Location: Palmy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:08 pm |
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Exactly, grappling is the art of defence applied to close quarters, archery
is the art applied to long distance. One art, each aspect is entwined. The
question is which subset of the art will be used.
I'm putting forward an argument for a 'soft' weapon category. The
argument being that there are many ancient masters who teach the art
for use against thin skinned opponents. Wearing armour invalidates
certain tactics, for example try cutting through mail with a knife. Yet
wearing armour makes sparring safe. Another way to make sparring safe
is to use soft weapons. By using safer weapons it maybe possible to lower
the cost of entry, and allow fighters to move in a more authentic manner.
An analogy for my argument is that coffee is better than tea. I prefer
coffee. Yet when someone comes to my house I ask "Tea or coffee?" as I
acknowledge that both are good choices, and should someone say I want
a spirulina smoothie, I will run down to the shop and get the ingredients. I
do not organise tournaments, I attend them. I'll comply with the rules of
the day. Just as I would if I played cricket one day and rugby the next,
both are good games, both have different rules and equipment
requirements. And I will enjoy the game of the day.
As an idea, what about having a private and a public component of a
tournament. The early session embraces a wide range of participants, the
later session is open to the public and showcases the finest fighters in the
very best kit? This is similar to other sports, for example a Karate
tournament, mum & dad watch Wayne the Whitebelt fight in the morning,
and Joe Public comes in the evening to watch the Blackbelts. |
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Mad Jim
Location: Dunedin
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:14 pm |
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Cricket? Rugby? both good? I'm yet to be convinced....I like Blossfechten..
_________________
I like living.. |
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Callum
Sponsor
Location: Upper Hutt
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:43 pm |
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| JohnF wrote: | | What do you think of using non metal wasters for a llghtly armoured category? |
Well we use wooden wasters for a lot of our training and I have no problems with what you are suggesting. Depends on the event, the participants and what you want to achieve.
We did some work with our 14th C dagger format earlier today and for that I would definately start with wooden dagger wasters before moving onto steel. We're almost at the stage where we can run a workshop on this format for those who are interested so that will be the first of our foot workshops that we run.
_________________
Callum Forbes
Order of the Boar - www.jousting.co.nz
Order of the Boar Historical Foot Combat -
www.hapkido.org.nz/upperhutt.html |
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pmel018
Principal Sponsor
Location: Wokingham, near Reading, UK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:34 am |
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[quote="JohnF"]What do you think of using non metal wasters for a llghtly armoured
category? Such as those designed by Dave Rawlings of the Boars Tooth
Fight School
http://www.theknightshop.co.uk/catalog/hema-nylon-waster-sparring-swords-c-563_573.html.
They have some flex on thrusting, and are 2/3 weight of a sword or long
sword. I'm putting this idea forward as I'm of the opinion that some sword
and buckler methods, such as the I33, appear to be more effective against
enemies with little armour. A softer weapon balances a lower armour
requirement, and might promote a more authentic martial experience./quote]
Hi guys
just checking in from the UK and spotted this topic. the major WMA event in the UK was held a couple of weeks ago. Fightcamp is three days of WMA training and includes a tournament, not my thing, but there are some very serious competitive fighters. There is a bit of it on Youtube
see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LecOKos63yA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nsLsGpDKXU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFDpRKWRT2E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spyEIiwss8k
Please note this was a WMA event so there was not attempt at authenticity, also the only weapons allowed were the Rawlings nylons including the new basket hilt. The protective equipment is reasonably minimal and specified by the rules, but you can wear as much as you want. Injuries = none aside from the usual bruises and damaged egos.
The steel rapier and smallsword events were not held this year due to a nasty accident last year involving a broken dagger blade(I only heard about it recently but involved a penetrating injury to the torso)The Knightshop are working on viable simulators for smallsword and late sabre as there has been an upsurge in interest in these later periods. The long rapier seems fair way off yet.
A last though, the blades of the nylon simulators can easily be coloured to look like steel for the sake of public display.
Good luck
Phil |
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pmel018
Principal Sponsor
Location: Wokingham, near Reading, UK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:22 am |
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Hi Guys
just found this YouTube of parts of a dagger tournament, US based
it's worth a look. They seem to be using shinai based daggers, quite good protection and plenty of judges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSrX3maLWqA&feature=youtu.be
Think you can ignore the technical commentary in the second half.
Phil |
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JohnF
Location: Palmy
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:34 pm |
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| Callum wrote: | Well we use wooden wasters for a lot of our training and
I have no problems with what you are suggesting. Depends on the event,
the participants and what you want to achieve. |
I'll buy a couple of Rawlings wasters, next year. Then bring them down
for a play. Albion and DBK Scabbards have my medieval budget for the
rest of the year.
| pmel018 wrote: | A last though, the blades of the nylon simulators can
easily be coloured to look like steel for the sake of public display. |
What are your thoughts on the viability of using them as a category in an
NZ tournament? Whilst I like the idea of them, I'm aware that rebated
steel weapons are preferred here.
| pmel018 wrote: | Hi Guys
just found this YouTube of parts of a dagger tournament, US based
it's worth a look.
Phil |
Ahh, Erik from Winter Tree Crafts is one of the competitors. I've my eye
on the CoPs that he makes. http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/CoP.html
We've been training with a similar judging system at Red Raven's
recently. Judging isn't sexy, but quality judging makes for enjoyable
tournaments. Like you say, plenty of judges. It can be damned hard to
spot good hits if you're at the wrong angle. However it would've been
difficult for an audience to see the combatants. Possibly elevated seating
would enhance viewing. Unlike the English WMA, who didn't have any
authentic kit , the juxtaposition of modern and traditional jarred.
Particularly the modern shoes. Oddly I was quite comfortable with the
fencing masks.
Callum, what standard of dress do you require at your events, shoes, hose, braies, etc? |
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mikronn
Location: Plimmerton
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:40 pm Rawlings wasters |
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The Order of the Boar has access to a couple of the longsword wasters - I bought them a few months ago. Happy to loan them for such a tourney.
I don't personally like how they bind and am not convinced they would be that much softer than a wooden waster.
cheers
mike |
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